Liberal Democrats take Burnley

[cheeky monkey]

I think this is the worst thing that could have happened for Burnley.
My children are afraid to use the towns parks,
My children are not looking forward to going to secondry school.
Parts of Burnley are no-go zones for certain members of the population.
Teenagers are running riot.
Police do not even bother turning up to incidents anymore.
And what have people done? Turned to the wet LibDems.
Who do anything to chase the Asian vote, Who are doing all they can to destroy our town by knocking down all the terraced housing making it hard for our children to get on the property ladder, just to drive the native Burnley people out of the town to make way for the overspill from Manchester, That is why Gordon is fighting for the hospital, Wants a better rail link to Manchester, To make it more appealing to outsiders not for the people who built this town with blood sweat and a lot of tears

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Darren Reynolds

No, we've not been asked. It's about time we were. If people knew what goes with Lancashire County Council they'd want it closed down. We did look into forming a unitary authority last year. In the long-run the accountants reckon it will save a lot of money but initially there are additional costs, including that of a referendum. The government wouldn't fund any of it and we can't afford it out of Council Tax so it's a non-starter for now.

Sorry Darren, we were all asked about becoming a unitary authoity at the same time that both Backburn and Blackpool took up their opption, when Loopy Lou Lou from Skem was leader of the County Council, and they spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers money on self pormotion

[Robert]

The only way we will get a unitary authority is if all the other second tier authorities in Lancashire agree to become unitary authorities. This didn't happen when Lancashire were asked and so that's the reason why we didn't become one. All the councils in places like County Durham, Wiltshire and Cornwall did agree to become unitary authorities leading to the creation of super councils in these areas and in Devon plans are afoot to extend the Unitary Authorities of Torbay and Plymouth and create a super council for the rest of Devon including Exeter.

The only reason I can see for this reasoning in completely aboloshing counties is to aid in the creation of regional assemblies which will dissolve power from Westminster and be more accountable to Brussels.

I guarantee that if the rest of Lancashire had arranged to become Unitary authorities, we would be electing new councillors to a new council ahead of 2009.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Labour re-elected to the County Council again and possibly would lead to a Labour council if we were Unitary anyway. There has to be more at a local level here than Labour wanting a Unitary Authority to enable them to create fully functioning regional assemblies or the Liberals thinking they are the only way they will get elected to something with as much power as the County Council within the Burnley area.

I also think that the full facts and reasons behind this should be made public and it should be pointed out that the North East voted against a regional assembly. Plus I don't believe for one minute that a Burnley/Pendle council which will appoint members to a regional assembly for the North West will be able to make up for the nonsense we are getting from Preston. Instead of having Preston tell us how to run our schools and roads it will be Brussels via the regional assembly.

I'm not often wrong on these things, I predicted the bin collection nonsense a year before it was made public and was laughed at.

Talking about bin collections, can we stop being condescended now that everyone knows how to recycle and have fortnightly recyclable collections and weekly refuse collections now you are in charge?

[Darren Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Robert

Plus I don't believe for one minute that a Burnley/Pendle council which will appoint members to a regional assembly for the North West will be able to make up for the nonsense we are getting from Preston. Instead of having Preston tell us how to run our schools and roads it will be Brussels via the regional assembly.

Have you any suggestions?

Originally Posted by Robert

Talking about bin collections, can we stop being condescended now that everyone knows how to recycle and have fortnightly recyclable collections and weekly refuse collections now you are in charge?

That's unlikely. The finances are stacked against this. Going round everyone's house twice as often costs almost twice as much. The increase in Council Tax would be prohibitive, and probably capped by Government. The easy-sounding answer is to find savings from somewhere else. Sack some faceless bureaucrats, find efficiencies here and there, stop having Mayor's balls etc. It's easy to come up with plausible-sounding examples and I do believe there is more that can be done, but it's not nearly as easy as people think. The savings don't have nearly as many zeros as the costs.

Then there is the argument that it works out cheaper in the long-run because of the fly-tipping, side waste, rats, etc. caused by "alternate weekly collections" as we are told we must call them. Sadly, these maths don't stack up either once you look at it properly. The environment scrutiny committee is doing some work on it at the moment and anyone who'd like to know more can come to observe the meetings or speak at the start of the meeting to ask questions.

At the moment the Council's priority is on sorting out problems with the white sacks and blue boxes, which tend to blow about all over the place.

[Lordmagic]

Lib Dems, Cons (Cons.... I like that) Labour or any other flash in the pan party can realistically do very little for our township as the ultiiimate purse strings are controlled by central gov't.

Each party are more and more becoming rapped within their own self esteems, I for one abstained from the last election as there was and still is very little to represent whatt this country and council actually require and need to go forward to make it the true and glorious country that once was known.

A split parliment alike our Scottish allies is probably the way forward in justification to our own beliefs, sadly this will probably never happen, maybe just maybe I hope it will one day.

Economics of our country has been abused and will never be as strong as it once was as long as the manufacturing is as weak as it is today, Burnley, unfortunate as it is will never make the come back to what it originally was...... King of cotton! There is very little left for Burnley apart from its richness in history and its rot in social decline and that's where it ends without the ultimate support from central government spending!

Burnley has a vast amount of wealth to offer the country but the country doesn't care less, it's a pedistool for up and coming political members that wish to portray a their own wealth and not our own!

It simply doesn't matter which party fronts our town anymore. The biggest achievement was the BNP winning seats, thats when money came flooding in and not to the achievements of any other party!

What do you think on this?

[Darren Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Lordmagic

The biggest achievement was the BNP winning seats, thats when money came flooding in and not to the achievements of any other party!

What do you think on this?

There's a grain of truth in this, but it's a bit like a depressed person who gets no medical treatment until he attempts suicide. That doesn't make suicide a good idea. It just shows how broken the system is.

Same with Burnley. Government money on its own can't fix all our problems. There will never be enough of it. Instead we need partnerships with the private sector. BNP activism makes Burnley look ugly. We need to create a positive image of Burnley that will make manufacturing companies want to invest here. That image has to be based on reality. That means cleaning the streets, controlling anti-social behaviour and having something to be proud of and to aspire to.

Positive feelings are fairly easy to have when you put your mind to it, and feeling good about our home town is as good a place to start as any.

[cheeky monkey]

Originally Posted by Darren Reynolds

There's a grain of truth in this, but it's a bit like a depressed person who gets no medical treatment until he attempts suicide. That doesn't make suicide a good idea. It just shows how broken the system is.

Same with Burnley. Government money on its own can't fix all our problems. There will never be enough of it. Instead we need partnerships with the private sector. BNP activism makes Burnley look ugly. We need to create a positive image of Burnley that will make manufacturing companies want to invest here. That image has to be based on reality. That means cleaning the streets, controlling anti-social behaviour and having something to be proud of and to aspire to.

Positive feelings are fairly easy to have when you put your mind to it, and feeling good about our home town is as good a place to start as any.

I know several members of the BNP and must say that I find them nothing like we are led to believe they are, They help old people who are unable to manage simple chores, They arrange clean ups of neglected areas, Also I have never heard a single Racist comment from any of them, One particular friend Cllr Sharon Wilkinson even gives up her free time every Tuesday to cook a meal for the over 50s club in Hapton, That is going way beyond her call of duty, My humble opinion is that the big 3 parties are scared of the BNP so refuse to work alongside them no matter what the voters think, No matter what ideas they have.
They were voted in by the people and refusing to work with them is very childish, and proves the big 3 care nothing for the democratic process.
If for arguements sake Mr Reynolds it came to a vote on dealing with Gary Glitter, Would you tow the party line or vote with your heart even if it meant agreeing with the BNP?

[Robert]

Have you any suggestions?

You need to market the idea of a unitary authority better. It just looks like sour grapes from the Lib Dems as an easier chance of getting more power and the Tories and New Tories just doing as ordered by Brussels. Unless you can sell the idea of a unitary authority better then I think we should stay as is and vote out the current county council lot next year.

If they aren't voted out then we're in the minority obviously and as we're a democracy we'll have to live with that decision. Given where UA's are leading and the fact no-one acknowledged this during the consultation period makes me wonder that this hasn't been well thought through or just disregarded with it just being a way for you to get more power regardless of the consequences. It just looked strange in the papers for me to read of the Lib-Dem group saying it was a way of removing a Labour stranglehold on Burnley but on the other hand the Labour group were all in support, it just wasn't right to me.

That's unlikely. The finances are stacked against this. Going round everyone's house twice as often costs almost twice as much. The increase in Council Tax would be prohibitive, and probably capped by Government. The easy-sounding answer is to find savings from somewhere else. Sack some faceless bureaucrats, find efficiencies here and there, stop having Mayor's balls etc. It's easy to come up with plausible-sounding examples and I do believe there is more that can be done, but it's not nearly as easy as people think. The savings don't have nearly as many zeros as the costs.

Then there is the argument that it works out cheaper in the long-run because of the fly-tipping, side waste, rats, etc. caused by "alternate weekly collections" as we are told we must call them. Sadly, these maths don't stack up either once you look at it properly. The environment scrutiny committee is doing some work on it at the moment and anyone who'd like to know more can come to observe the meetings or speak at the start of the meeting to ask questions.

At the moment the Council's priority is on sorting out problems with the white sacks and blue boxes, which tend to blow about all over the place.

I understand the finances etc. but people are baffled as to why council tax increases are so high and why services like bins appear to have to have been cut back. For all the reasoning etc. and I'm sure you are doing your best it still will seem unsatisfactory.

Originally Posted by Darren Reynolds

There's a grain of truth in this, but it's a bit like a depressed person who gets no medical treatment until he attempts suicide. That doesn't make suicide a good idea. It just shows how broken the system is.

Same with Burnley. Government money on its own can't fix all our problems. There will never be enough of it. Instead we need partnerships with the private sector. BNP activism makes Burnley look ugly. We need to create a positive image of Burnley that will make manufacturing companies want to invest here. That image has to be based on reality. That means cleaning the streets, controlling anti-social behaviour and having something to be proud of and to aspire to.

Positive feelings are fairly easy to have when you put your mind to it, and feeling good about our home town is as good a place to start as any.

I'm sure you are aware of a few elected BNP officials in Burnley who on the whole are doing the job expected of them and have been asked to give comment to outside bodies etc. They can't be ignored and the national image of the BNP aside, the current four when looking at them as just councillors are able to put across the views of what may be a minority of people in Burnley but I feel are vital in being middle men to people in Burnley disenfranchised from mainstream politics. Even if the BNP councillors go, they will still retain a core vote and will still appeal to people in Burnley disenfranchised from mainstream politics, they should not be ignored. I like to think of them as a safety valve.

I think we can all agree with your last points and now that the Lib-Dems are running the council, its time to put those words into action and be judged on your actions in the upcoming elections.

[Lordmagic]

Originally Posted by Darren Reynolds

There's a grain of truth in this, but it's a bit like a depressed person who gets no medical treatment until he attempts suicide. That doesn't make suicide a good idea. It just shows how broken the system is.

Same with Burnley. Government money on its own can't fix all our problems. There will never be enough of it. Instead we need partnerships with the private sector. BNP activism makes Burnley look ugly. We need to create a positive image of Burnley that will make manufacturing companies want to invest here. That image has to be based on reality. That means cleaning the streets, controlling anti-social behaviour and having something to be proud of and to aspire to.

Positive feelings are fairly easy to have when you put your mind to it, and feeling good about our home town is as good a place to start as any.

Darren, respect to your feelings but I dont think you grasp the reality of the real world without meaning to sound offensive in any way, shape or form.

There isn't just 'a grain' of truth about gov't funding there's at least a bushel of truth around this.

Positive images are already all around Burnley, they have been for centuries, it's just a shame the electoriate failed to notice how much rott could have been avoided at an early stage without the need to use protest votes for some action to take place.

Private companies will only invest for a reasonable return, don't forget that Burnley has been given the 'tag' of one of the worst places to live within the top twenty towns, the local council attively promote town centre public bars and clubs as the town for its size has more than its need, oh by the way Burnley has one of the highest figures for female alcholism not forgetting underage and teenage pregnancies. I dont wish to sound negative but the reason why Burnley has been neglected is that the manufacturing base within the UK over the last 10 years has been reduced by a whopping 75% being replaced by services and financials.

Manufacturing will not return to the UK never mind Burnley until corporate tax is reduced and the cost of producing becomes more efficient and cost effective, the minimum wage alone will not help this, China, Brazil, India, Russia and surrounding sub countries will be abundant with british investment simply because it is cheaper and the operating margins are wider giving a very healthy return on profit.

I agree that manufacturing has to return to the UK even Burnley to make our economics viabally sustainable. :)

Untill this happens keep dreaming!

Oh by the way I love Burnley that's why I live and work here (for now).

:)))
Although

[Darren Reynolds]

Originally Posted by cheeky monkey

I know several members of the BNP and must say that I find them nothing like we are led to believe they are

Some are perfectly friendly until it comes time for voting on equality issues. I wish Sharon was here to answer a few questions about immigration and inter-community cohesion so that you could see what the problem is. The rest of the time I agree, she's perfectly friendly.

Originally Posted by cheeky monkey

My humble opinion is that the big 3 parties are scared of the BNP so refuse to work alongside them no matter what the voters think, No matter what ideas they have. They were voted in by the people and refusing to work with them is very childish, and proves the big 3 care nothing for the democratic process.

You've got it wrong. They have their fair share of the seats on the scrutiny committees, in proporion with the number of seats on the Council. You have to remember there are only 4 of them to 23 Lib Dems, so it's hardly likely we're going to put them in charge of anything much. Besides, as a Lib Dem, I disagree profoundly with many BNP policies, but upold their right to campaign for them.

Originally Posted by cheeky monkey

If for arguements sake Mr Reynolds it came to a vote on dealing with Gary Glitter, Would you tow the party line or vote with your heart even if it meant agreeing with the BNP?

I've no idea what you mean. As far as I know, Gary Glitter (or whatever his real name is) is a convicted criminal currently serving a sentence in Thailand. I could be wrong - I haven't checked. What exactly are you asking? What party line are you talking about?

[Darren Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Robert

You need to market the idea of a unitary authority better. It just looks like sour grapes from the Lib Dems as an easier chance of getting more power ... It just looked strange in the papers for me to read of the Lib-Dem group saying it was a way of removing a Labour stranglehold on Burnley

I'm the party's press officer and have no recollection of this. Are you able to say which paper and date? It would be a gross perversion of democracy. Unity Authorities must be in the interests of residents, not political parties. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would be illegal.

Originally Posted by Robert

I understand the finances etc. but people are baffled as to why council tax increases are so high and why services like bins appear to have to have been cut back. For all the reasoning etc. and I'm sure you are doing your best it still will seem unsatisfactory.

Yes, sadly so. Few people realise that the Government funds Local Authorities through the Revenue Support Grant and that Council Tax makes up only a small proportion of the total. At the same time, wages are negotiated centrally and Local Authorities have no control over them. When the RSG goes down in real terms and wages go up, as happened last year, the money has to come from somewhere. When services are already cut to the bone, guess what, it comes from Council Tax payers.

Originally Posted by Robert

I'm sure you are aware of a few elected BNP officials in Burnley who on the whole are doing the job expected of them and have been asked to give comment to outside bodies etc. They can't be ignored and the national image of the BNP aside, the current four when looking at them as just councillors are able to put across the views of what may be a minority of people in Burnley but I feel are vital in being middle men to people in Burnley disenfranchised from mainstream politics. Even if the BNP councillors go, they will still retain a core vote and will still appeal to people in Burnley disenfranchised from mainstream politics, they should not be ignored. I like to think of them as a safety valve.

I will say that three of the four are essentially honest, down-to-earth people who, with regret, are misguided on issues of cross-community friendship. I disagree with their views, but of course, uphold their right to hold them. One of the councillors and most of the activists in the party - sorry, but I have to say this - are complete nutters.

[Darren Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Lordmagic

Manufacturing will not return to the UK never mind Burnley until ...

That's not entirely true. It is already happening.

Sadly I can't post a link as I'm not allowed yet :-(

But we have run out of industrial units in Burnley and are planning the next site near to the new College & University facility off Princess Way, which will run degree courses in advanced manufacturing. There is much beginning to happen up at the old Michelin site also.

[Robert]

I know behind closed doors at least the UA's are definitely part of a plan to regionalise local democracy over much larger areas. It's a shame really as it goes against all that was said in "Whose Town is it Anyway, Wilks-Heeg and Clayton, 2006" which is it an interesting read for anyone involved in the latest local political scene in Burnley really. I think the new UA for Cornwall is a perverse example of the complete opposite really of what is needed, it's not the easiest county to drive around and basing everything now in Truro is going to be a major headache. It's also worth noting that 98% of Cornish people don't want the UA but are getting it anyway.

I'll have to do a bit of searching on the actual quote you seek but I'm sure a link even implicitly was made between how a labour-controlled county council was ignoring our needs and how a unitary authority would help. Obviously a labour UA would just carry on as was so I may have assumed that that it was inferring a Lib-Dem run council.

As for manufacturing etc. It's going to be a long road if things come out as promised but there is definitely a shortage of engineering graduates out there and this is something reflected by a wide range of sectors seeking them.

I'm struggling at the moment with a lack of promised investment in my sector to create the jobs needed but with any luck it could be tied into regeneration so hopefully I won't be waiting too long.

[Robert]

One implicit example

Burnley Express - 1 December 2006

Coun. Birtwistle said: "Considering a number of decisions taken recently regarding some of our services in Burnley, I can safely say we are better off without Lancashire County Council.

"The county's health scrutiny committee which is partly responsible for downgrade services at Burnley General Hospital, its environment committee which wants to shut Padiham's waste disposal plant and the loss of our libraries are just some examples."

[Lordmagic]

Originally Posted by Darren Reynolds

That's not entirely true. It is already happening.

Sadly I can't post a link as I'm not allowed yet :-(

But we have run out of industrial units in Burnley and are planning the next site near to the new College & University facility off Princess Way, which will run degree courses in advanced manufacturing. There is much beginning to happen up at the old Michelin site also.

What........ Manufacturing is returning???

Where exactly?

Industrial units being built or used do not confirm a rise in UK or local manufacturing at all! Industrial units can and usually do get used for a variety of reasons which mainly include; storage/warehousing, telephone call centres, assembling impoted goods etc, etc but not strong enough to suggest a return of manufacturing in support of the local economy.

I must also add that out of the survivng or up and coming manufacturing companies (manufacturing = products made from raw materials and not assembly of products) how many employ a low skilled labour force? How many employees are of european or asian origins? This does not mean that such employees directly contribute to the local economy apart from what they actually spend to stay alive.

Advanced manufacturing requires very little employees to operate and make a company successful as this is the new process that can and will push society into further poverty and debt, its simply not cost effective anymore to have a large or medium sized labour force no matter what the minimum wage is!

Maybe there is a concentrate in re-education for manufacturing skills but you still need the company to make use of them.......... It's abit like that old saying....... "like flogging a dead horse" can be pointless unless you have an attitude of ignorance!

:P