Racism or Not?

[keckfaro]

Just reading the news on the Evening Telegraph website and saw a report about two white lads getting beaten up by a group of Asian youths on Queen Victoria Rd and a police spokesperson saying that the attack was not being treated as racist,my question is that if it had been the other way round ie.if the lads who were beaten up were Asian and the group of lads were white would the spokesperson have made the same statement?call me cynical but somehow I don,t think so.

[thehorror]

It would only be racism if it was the other way round. White people are being phased out, by law.

[turtle]

It happens more than you might think. Remember that stabbing a few weeks back up Colne Road? That was Asians attacking whites.

Did you also hear about the incident over Pendle where Asian gangs were fighting over drugs and two were seriously hurt before Christmas? One had been hit in the head with a machete? No, because it's not reported.

I know someone who works for the Burnley Express and they ARE NOT ALLOWED TO REPORT THESE INCIDENTS! Why not? Isn't that racist against other communities they do report?

[rafa]

If this is true Turtle then whats happened to the freedom of the press and for that fact freedom of speech ?? and for that here's another question why can't i be recognised as English on my passport and not British yet all other country's have there own nationality's ??

[Neal]

It's worrying if that's true Turtle. I thought the press were supposed to be non-biased and go with the "Freedom of Speach" we are all entitled to but not allowed to use......

Would like to know more about this if reporting incidents is biased and one-sided.

[Ianw]

There are quite a number of things that have racial 'D' notices on them, I think this suppression of reporting amongst the 'ethnic minoroties' is supposed to stop violence escalating, nothing slips through the net of their 'bush telegraph'.

[jedimaster]

i was in town for the first time in ages yesterday and at first i was quite pleased to see the town security moving on a group of (white) teenagers who had begun to loiter around poundland/smoky joes. Nice to see something being done i thought untill ten minutes later when i came back past and theres a group of asian teenagers doing exactly the same thing only shouting and swearing (would not normally bother me that much but i had my 5 year old daughter with me)
funnily enough the security was nowhere to be seen - coincidence? I THINK NOT!

[spuggie j fk3]

There is a fine line that can be crossed without even realising it. If those teens that had moved on had seen the other group and that the security had not moved them on then they might have played the "R" card.

[bbn75]

have to be carefull how i put this i dont want to sound racest.

i think a lot of the problems lie at the moment esp here in blackburn people playing the race card all the time. and yes if a gang of asaians attack a group of white lads it may be racest attack but on the flip side it would defo be a a racest attack. its about time communitys stoped fighting and just got on with it i cant see the problem going away only worse. what next civil war like in ireland ?????

[Brian]

I think the problem with teenagers is the same as when I was a lad, they are territorial. Burnley Wooders stuck to their area for pubs and entertainment and never went on a night out in other urban areas, if by chance we met gangs from another area elsewhere then in all probability a fight would break out, notably in the Town centres or late night clubs and football matches

The present situation seems much of the same but with the added complication of colour/race/religion/funny hair style/no hair style.

If an incident involves white and BME citizens then its called racist even if its only a fight or dispute between two groups from different areas. If it is not racially motivated then It certainly shouldn't be logged as a racial incident


Brian:rain:

[garabaldi]

I feel lucky that my youth days in UK were safe ones, relatively drug free and with a minimum of violence. I once worked in a hospital in the south of England which had 35 different nationalities working in it. Was there any racism - absolutely not - everyone got on - that didn't mean we liked everyone but we got on. I also feel lucky that I now live outside of UK, but still strongly identify as a 'northener' rather than a 'southerner' and am always saddened by the apparent destruction of traditional northern English life.

England in the 60's decided to allow significant numbers of immigrants to enter and become citizens. naturally many wished to live close to each other and so the 'urban ghettos' began. Why did England make this decision? - I believe it was cheap labour and with jobs that locals weren't interested in - there may also have been a sense of responsibility to former colonies - not sure about that one!

So multicultural living became the norm even though there were often divides in the same town. This is one very significant social phenomena that has radically changed the face of english life and its inhabitants, probably for ever. Now of course Tony Blair has admitted that multiculturism hasn't worked. What he means I think is that we are not all a happy band of 'ovaltines' what ever our background and colour or religion and all getting on well together.To hope that that would happen was being rather naive.

the second major social phenomena that has changed the pattern of english lifestyle is 'the freedom of youth'. Yes as a youth I kicked over the traces a bit, but the controls that were in place then were much stronger and kept us all in line. Kids in those days had basic rights for sure but not uncontrollable rights as they seem to have today.

So the story about the superschools also saddened me, as I remember all my school days. Yes we had fights in the school yard and fights outside but they were almost fought by the "Queensbury rules of boxing' - fair and square.

Kids as far as I can see [ and let's try to remember that probably at least 60% of all kids are good!] just have too much freedom and not enough discipline and for me discipline starts in the home not the school. So as a society, England in my opinion has neglected its kids, forsaken its kids and needs to reign them in hard. And that won't be easy.

There is a third phenomena I guess and that is consumerism - everyone chasing the almighty pound and wanting to live in luxury conditions with little need for old fashioned fun and values.

The solutions ? - nothing simple here - multiculturism no matter how dysfunctional is here to stay - it has to be worked at better and from a multicultural postion with cooperation on both sides - it has to be done for the sake of the future generations of multicultural kids are aren't going to go away.

dysfunctional kids - re-education of the parents - we can't expect the schools to do it all - parenting training in many forms is needed. The dysfunctional parents - often teenagers know no better - they need training.

Schools - greater discipline and SMALLER schools. The research in education clearly demonstrates that if any school goes beyond a population of 500 it becomes unmanageable and dysfunctional. The largest school I ever went to was about 400 but that was in the days when there was more discipline and better responsibility all around by everyone.

consumerism - your guess is as good as mine - it is fueled by business that is insatiable and needs to always make a buck. Outward bound schools is one way to go. Getting back to nature - easy said but not easy to persuade.

yes for me over the years I have seen a country that I love become increasingly dysfunctional. And yet when I visited and stayed for a while in the late '90's I found places that had remained unchanged for 40 years. The lake district, devon and cornwall, parts of wales, scotland and Ireland, but they all required skills and cash to survive in them. When I visited the lake district in the rain - I could have bought a cottage immediately and moved in. it reminded me of the England that I once knew!

I haven't come here to moan just to comment from an Englishman's point of view from outside looking in.

[Neal]

What an excellent post, and a mighty fine read.

[garabaldi]

thanks neil - if I could fix it all tommorrow I'd be the first to put me hand up - but Britain now has to fix itself. Enoch Powell tried to fix it once and he was shouted down as a racist!

[garabaldi]

I recent report by the Von Hugell institute at Cambridge University, has estimated that there are now 600 000 Polish immigrants in UK - most of them in London and all of them Catholic.

the report suggests that if this trend continues and with church stats indicating a significant fall in non-Catholic attendances, that UK may become once again a catholic country in practice if not in constitution.

and another report: "
THOUSANDS of Poles are buying homes In Britain as they decide to settle here.
In some parts of the country they represent up to a fifth of the house hunters on the books of estate agents.
They are driving up prices at the lower end of the market, often using cash from the sale of their home In Poland as deposit.
A survey by Connells, one of the largest agencies in the UK, found 20 per cent of .customers were Polish In certain areas. Spokesman Gill Rlgby said: 'It looks like Poles are buying property everywhere.'"

let me hasten to add that I am not anti-catholic or anti-Polish. But these are examples of how the social structure of England is changing - I originally mentioned certain phenomena as affecting traditional life in UK, they were multiculturalism, freedom of youth and consumerism - I missed another highly significant one - membership of the EEC, which has resulted in the influx of European migrants.

England once could claim that being an island gave it protection from invasion and also a distinct and clear position as a country not attached to any other by land mass. From this position it became Great Britain and the British Empire.

The EEC - has removed this protection and UK is now indeed being 'invaded' both legally and illegally and the politicians seem helpless to control it - perhaps a change of government is needed!

Needless to say these same phenomenas are also occuring all over Europe with a mass movement of immigrants from poor European countries to richer ones. I suppose you could say that it is an equaling out of the spoils of victories long passed?<